Last month, I wrote a guest post for NonProphet Status about the Bill Nye/Ken Ham creation debate: “4 Things Bill Nye Should Have Said to Ken Ham.”
Last Sunday, Ken Ham wrote a blog post about me: “Four Misconceptions About Biblical Creation.”
Check out my response to Ham.
First, I want to say that I really appreciate Ken Ham taking the time to respond. I’ve been to his Creation Museum, but I’ve never met him. While we disagree about how to read Genesis, we’re united as brothers in Christ.
For this response, I will list my four original points. After each point, I will react to Ham’s counterpoints.
1. Young-earth creationism is, uh, young.
Young-earth creationism is not, as Ham claims, “the prevailing interpretation throughout church history . . . until the last two hundred years.” Dr. Sujin Pak, who teaches church history at Duke Divinity School, wrote a three-part essay about this topic: “Pre-Modern Readings of Genesis 1.” Pak’s essay rejects Ham’s simplistic narrative. She focuses on five famous Christian theologians, all of whom died long before Darwin arrived on the scene:
. . . Origen, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin all focused upon several shared theological teachings in their readings of Genesis 1, all of which point to the Trinitarian God of the historic creeds as Creator uniquely apart and above all of the created cosmos. For these interpreters, guiding the church towards a right theological relationship to the Father, Son and Spirit is the real aim of Scripture, rather than establishing scientific details of the creation process, about which these church Fathers held various opinions. . . . For these pre-modern Christians, then, Scripture’s authority and infallibility were not staked upon its scientific accuracy . . .
As Pak writes, the point isn’t how old the Fathers thought the earth was. The point is how they read the creation stories. Scholar Peter C. Bouteneff—in Beginnings: Ancient Christian Readings of the Biblical Creation Narratives—explains how we should view their interpretation of Genesis:
The point is not, then, whether the fathers took the seven “days” or Adam to be historical. . . . As to the end result, however, none of the fathers’ strictly theological or moral conclusions—about creation, or about humanity and its redemption, and the coherence of everything in Christ—has anything to do with the datable chronology of the creation of the universe or with the physical existence of Adam and Eve. They read the creation narratives as Holy Scripture, and therefore as “true.” . . . Generally speaking, the fathers were free from a slavish deference to science (p.183; emphasis added).
The doctrine of creation isn’t about when the universe began, or how old the earth is. John Polkinghorne, a scientist and a theologian, explains what this doctrine is really about:
The doctrine of creation isn’t about how things began, it’s about why things exist—what holds the world in being. And the Christian belief is that it is the will of God that holds the world in being.
Theologian William Carroll reminds us that the natural sciences can never disprove, or prove, creation:
It is a mistake to use arguments in the natural sciences to deny creation. Similarly, it is a mistake to use arguments in cosmology to seek to confirm the doctrine of creation.
Young-earth creationism obscures the doctrine of creation. When I say that young-earth creationism is young, I mean that the way Ken Ham talks about Genesis would shock the Fathers, not please them. As philosopher/theologian Conor Cunningham writes in Darwin’s Pious Idea, Ham’s version of creationism is indeed very new:
. . . for modern-day creationism is just that, modern. It is a recent accretion, and indeed aberration, of the two-thousand-year-old tradition of Christianity (pp. 295-296).
For more information on the recent origins of today’s young-earth creationist movement, see Karl Giberson’s short, informative article.
2. Young-earth creationism is incredibly arbitrary.
Look at the above picture. What is it? It’s an image of how Genesis 1 describes the world.
- There is a solid vault/firmament (Genesis 1:6).
- This hard barrier separates the water above the earth from the water below it (Genesis 1:7).
- There are “lights in the vault of the sky” (Genesis 1:14).
This diagram is what a consistent, scientific reading of Genesis 1 produces. I absolutely agree with Ham that the Bible contains different genres, requiring different methods of interpretation. It’s incredibly arbitrary, however, to say the days in Genesis 1 are scientifically accurate but the domed sky isn’t. I know that Answers in Genesis has argued that the firmament isn’t necessarily a solid dome. This argument, however, has been thoroughly debunked.
Comparing the six-day creation story with the Adam and Eve story also discourages reading Genesis as science. There are significant contradictions between the two accounts. There are also other creation stories in the OT, but—as Del Preston said in Wayne’s World 2—“that’s a different story altogether.”
Oh, and looking at the dome described in Genesis 1 reminds me of a Pauly Shore movie: Bio-Dome. Unfamiliar with the movie? Do yourself a favor and watch the trailer.
3. Do any non-Christians believe that the earth is young?
I agree with Ham’s point about science and worldviews: “Every person has a worldview, or glasses, from which they see the world.” Young-earth creationist glasses are a problem, though. Ham’s arguments against evolution remind me of a great clip from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. (Warning: there is some strong language in this clip.)
Like I’ve said above, Christianity doesn’t teach that the earth is young. It does teach that God raised Jesus from the dead (bodily).
4. Embracing evolution does NOT require embracing atheism; atheists who teach the opposite are being counterproductive.
I agree with Ham that “the creation/evolution issue is not a personal salvation issue.”
I disagree with his statement that accepting evolution “compromises God’s Word.” I like theologian Francis Watson’s take. In Reading Genesis after Darwin, Watson says that Darwin has done us all a favor:
In liberating science from scripture, [Darwin] also liberates scripture from science—bringing to an end an unhappy union that prevented each party from articulating its own truth in its own way (pp. 35-36; emphasis added).
Darwin’s discoveries remind us of a truth the Fathers knew well, but us moderns have often forgot. As Dr. Pak observes, the Fathers knew that the Bible’s “authority and infallibility [are] not staked upon its scientific accuracy.”
Ham says that accepting evolution means undermining the Bible, especially its teachings on sin, death, and the Fall. I disagree. There are many helpful, faithful resources that examine these issues:
- Conrad Hyers wrote a great article looking at the numerology and narrative in Genesis 1. This is a must-read.
- A BioLogos documentary makes great points about understanding Genesis, the Fall, and Paul’s use of Adam.
- Denis Lamoureux gave a great presentation about sin and death.
- Don’t miss Peter Enns’s book about Adam and evolution. He summarized his book in this presentation. He also wrote a short, fascinating blog post comparing Adam’s story and the story of Israel.
So What?
Right now, some of you may be imitating Jeff Bridges in The Big Lebowski: “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man.”
I’m not saying that you have to agree with my views. I’m just saying that there are different, faithful ways to view the relationship between modern science and the Bible. Accepting evolution isn’t a compromise. The Bible isn’t a book about science. It’s a book about Jesus.
I want to thank Ken Ham again for responding to me. I look forward to his thoughts on this post—and our continuing conversation.
Jesus & Dawkins 
“It is a mistake to use arguments in the natural sciences to deny creation. Similarly, it is a mistake to use arguments in cosmology to seek to confirm the doctrine of creation.”
How can this possibly be true? The Church’s own behavior suggests that scientific insights have been significantly troubling from a religious POV, from when Copernicus discovered that the Earth is not the center of the universe to the traumatic impact of the theory of evolution. One can say that the scripture doesn’t explain how or when but why, but even so it’s more than a little puzzling that specific claims made, once disproven, are no longer considered important.
Consider it logically. If humans are the central product of God’s creation, what does it mean that the universe is infinity times larger than our small planet. Was all this created simply to entertain children at planetaria? And if alien races developed and one visits us it would breed a new theological crisis. The Bible never suggested life may be elsewhere and we would have no way of processing what it would mean that a race with no contact or knowledge of Jesus has been alive and traveling for so many millions or billions of years.
It seems a too convenient argument by half to say that on the one hand these are the most important insights about the origin of things, the meaning of life, its purpose, and what happens after death and then say, on the other hand, that all of these are just anecdotes or stories and have no practical relationship to the reality we see.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Peter, thanks for the comment! I’ll respond to your thoughts in order:
That quotation is true because there is a difference between metaphysics and physics. Dr. William Carroll explains this in a great article: “No explanation of cosmological processes, nor biological change for that matter . . . challenges the metaphysical account of creation, that is, of the dependence of the existence of all things upon God as cause.”
I agree with you that the Church’s history is littered with some negative responses to science. I think, however, the Church’s reaction to Copernicus, Galileo, and Darwin was much more complex than folks often assume.
I see your point about the universe’s size, but some could see that as another testament to God’s power. And regarding the alien question, I covered that in a weekly buzz a few months ago.
I disagree with your last comment. I think many important questions fall outside the domain of science, but that’s not disrespecting science — that’s showing epistemological humility. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:14, though, the entire Christian faith hangs on the historicity of Christ’s resurrection. A real event.
If you haven’t watched it already, I think you should check out Conor Cunningham’s lecture about everything you just mentioned. I’d love to know what you think of it. He’s a very entertaining speaker.
Thanks again for commenting! I can always count on you for raising great questions.
LikeLike
The Holy Bible is a book about everything including Jesus Christ. Science comes from a man’s theory. The Holy Bible is not based on that, but rather on fact. It is simply there for the taking and faith is required in order to believe in it. Science is nothing short of simply dissecting something to procreate the truth with a modern twist. You cannot size up modern times with ancient biblical times. Back then technology didn’t exist. Science therefore cannot change history, it can only modify it and make it believable in a theoretical modernized way.
LikeLike
People should just open their hearts, and not their minds. These theories are just that, theories. Maybe one day these things will take a twist and change and that is okay because they’re just theories. Ideologies and theories are simply put together to create what looks logical. Don;t be fooled by man’s science, God was around longer than man. Faith moves mountains, science doesn’t.
LikeLike
Every point hits it dead on – great work Mike!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you very much, Jake!
LikeLike
The poor deluded fighting between yourselves.
LikeLike
I’m an evangelical Christian who embraces standard science as the best description of the natural world, so I embrace inflationary cosmology and biological evolution. And I agree with every one of your points. Well stated!
Sadly, this will not sit well with many of my fellow evangelicals.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Robinson, thank you! I hope the evangelical conversation keeps … evolving. I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself. (Fun fact: I call myself an evangelical too.)
LikeLike
Mike, this is really well researched, presented, and cited.
Also, your “4 Things” are a respectful, civil form of disagreement, in contrast to “7 Things” by Miley Cyrus 1.0 (the wholesome one):
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you! Great pop culture reference. I really hope Steve Brule interviews Miley.
LikeLike
Thanks, Mike for your excellent responses clarifying this controversial topic. It’s important that Christianity stay relevant in today’s world. To deny the reality of scientifically proven facts is counterproductive and when propounded by Christian leaders threatens to confuse intelligent Christians and make them question their beliefs. The bible doesn’t need to be scientifically accurate but is meant to inspire us spiritually to live the life of compassion and empathy toward others that Christ teaches. This is where the emphasis of church leaders should be directed.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks! I agree with you, and so does Augustine. I don’t think the Bible needs to change to become relevant. I think we need to go back to how the Fathers read the Bible, long before the advent of modern science.
LikeLike
Science vs Holy Bible is first off a misconception in itself. You cannot compare the word of God with the theory of mankind because God is much greater than man alone. These unfortunate individuals who are portraying these so-called scientific theoretical facts are forgetting one thing. They are already in modern times and not in biblical times to actually “know” the facts. They rely on man’s scientific analogies and not on faith in which comes from above. I see a lot of people punching their tickets to this bandwagon ride. Science is science and true history is just that, the simple truth.
LikeLike
I ARGUE WITH KEN HAM…BUT I FIND MYSELF ALSO DISAGREEING WITH YOUR VIEW PRESENTED HERE…THAT PICTURE DOES NOT DESCRIBE GENESIS…GENSIS ONE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HELL…THERE ARE LITERAL COLUMNS OF MELTED LAVA CALLED FLUMES UNDER THE EARTH AND THE EARTH IS SOMEWHAT SUPPORTED BY THESE FLUMES THAT PUSH UP AGAINST THE CRUST OF THE EARTH…THEY ARE WHAT IS UNDER THE SUPER VOLCANOES SUCH AS YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK..THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THESE ARE PRESERVED FOR THE JUDGEMENT OF WICKED MEN IN THE LATER DAYS… THEREFORE THE COLUMNS ARE COLUMNS OF FIRE…THE BIBLE ALSO MENTIONS COLUMNS OF SMOKE BUT IT DOESNT MEAN THEY ARE STONE COLUMNS…YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE EXPANSE BECAUSE THE BIRDS FLY AL PNEE AGAINST THE EXPANSE- AL PNEE MEANS IN A DOWNWARD DIRECTION-IF THE BIRDS FLY DOWNWARD AGAINST THE EXPANSE THIS MEANS THAT THEY HAVE TO GET ABOVE IT AND IF IT WERE SOLID THIS WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. ONE POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION HOLDS THAT THE EXPANSE IS THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. EITHER WAY …WHAT I JUST SHARED MEANS THE EXPANSE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE SOLID BY THE WORDS AL PNEE. THE WATERS ABOVE THE EXPANSE ARE INDEED CORRECT THE 3 MOST ABUNDANT PARTICLES IN THE UNIVERSE ARE HYDROGEN HELIUM AND OXYGEN. ACCORDING TO NASA-EVERY OXYGEN IS PAIRED WITH A HYDROGEN AND IT HAS BEEN DISCOVERED THAT WATER IS VERY ABUNDANT IN THE UNIVERSE. THE OLDEST DISCOVERED WATER DISCOVERED IS 12 TO 13 BILLION LIGHT YEARS OLD. FURTHERMORE THERE ARE VERSES THAT DESCRIBE THE EARTH AS BEING CHWG MEANING EITHER A SPHERE OR A CIRCLE-BUT COUPLE THESE WITH A VERSE THAT DESCRIBES THE EARTH TURNING WHICH IN HEBREW THE WORD LITERALLY MEANS TO SPIN AND THE HORIZON IS DESCIBED AS BEING SPHERICAL AND THE DAYLIGHT AND NIGHT HAVE A BOUNDARY. I HAVE FOUND YOU WRONG ON SEVERAL POINTS. FURTHERMORE THE HEBREW ORDER OF EVENTS BY THE HEBREW LANGUAGE DOES MATCH THE SCIENTIFIC ORDER OF EVENTS. MADE THE LIGHTS IS ASAH AND USUALLY DOES NOT MEAN TO MAKE SOMETHING FROM SCRATCH. THE TALMUD SAYS THEY APPEARED THIS DAY. I FEEL THE OLD EARTH CREATIONIST VIEW THAT THE FOG CLEARED IS CORRECT. THIS IS THE ERA THAT THE GREAT OXYGENATION EVENT OCCURED AND THE LIGHTS BECAME VIEWABLE FROM THE EARTH. THIS WAS NECESSARY BECAUSE MOST OF THE LIFE THAT FOLLOWED DEPENDING ON ASTRONOMICAL CYCLES FOR LIFE THAT WE WELL KNOW. THE HEAVENS ARE ALSO DESCRIBED AS CHWG AND EVEN THE ATHESITS ADMIT THAT THE ANCIENTS DID NOT THING THE HEAVENS WERE A FLAT CIRCLE. I HAVE FOUND YOU WRONG ON SEVERAL POINTS. YOU MIGHT WANT TO RETHINK THAT PICTURE. BUT IF YOU BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE SON OF YHWH AND DIED AND ROSE AND IS ALIVE IN THE FLESH THEN WE ARE BROTHERS. I HOPE I HAVE NOT MADE YOU MAD-BUT YOU HAVN’T DONE YOUR HOMEWORK ON THESE ISSUES.
LikeLike
Hi James,
A couple of corrections to your post from 10/31/14. You state that ” ACCORDING TO NASA-EVERY OXYGEN IS PAIRED WITH A HYDROGEN.” Well, that obviously isn’t true. O2, or oxygen gas is obviously abundant in our atmosphere. In fact, it’s what we breathe. That and nitrogen and a few other less abundant gasses. So, all of those oxygens aren’t paired with a hydrogen. CO2, the gas that we exhale, is two oxygens paired with a carbon. Once again, no hydrogen involved. So, not every oxygen is paired with a hydrogen. You said that was “According to NASA. Can you list your source for that?” Also, you state that “THE OLDEST DISCOVERED WATER DISCOVERED IS 12 TO 13 BILLION LIGHT YEARS OLD.” A light year is a measure of distance, not of time. A light year is the distance that it takes light to travel in one year. So water cannot be 12 to 13 billion light years old. It can be 12 to 13 billion years old. Perhaps that’s what you meant. Once again, what is your source for that information? Something that’s very important in science is listing the source of your information. I can write anything in a post, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. I could say, “According to NASA, scientists have now proven that black holes do not exist.” That happens not to be true. Just because I typed it, and just because I said “According to NASA”, it doesn’t mean it’s true. You have to cite where you get these facts from, otherwise it’s meaningless. Anybody can write anything. Without proof, it’s just a bunch of words. Thanks for listening.
Sincerely,
Another Person Named James
LikeLiked by 1 person
while God could make the world with the appearance of age, it might be possible that the Bibles description of time is based on physics that says the world is both young and old depending on where an observer is viewing time, time slows down with velocity, stretching of space and gravity, and viewing the whole universe would experience a different time than someone stuck on the earth, there are 3 ways to figure this and all agree at least mathmatically…velocity, distance, and stretching of the universe…Einssteins relativity says 14 billion years and 6 days are both true depending on where the viewer is and what he is viewing…Gen 1
:2 places YHWH above the universe because the sea was not made yet in the chapter…thus his time is above the universe…waters, mayim is a common hebrew term for the heavens and the heaven YHWH is above……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY VELOCITY:T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days(13.7 billion years converted to days) ;5000500000000 = 6 days/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12; PLACING YHWH 1/2 a millimeter closer than the farthest photons…also… YHWH is in all reference frames……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY DISTANCE:
distance of YHWH from farthest photon inthe estimated size of the universe=46500000000 LY radius; 299792458 m / s x60 x 60 x 24 x 365 x 46500000000=439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters x .99999999999999999999999999999999= 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 meters distance;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 – 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 = .0005 meters difference, YHWH half a millimeter from farthest photons……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY STRETCHING OF SPACE: space time stretched 1000,000,000,000 times since first matter (something slower than light survived, hence time kicks in), this means time has slowed 1000,000,000,000 times, 5.1 days genesis x 1000,000,000,000/365=13.9 billion years, YHWH looking into the universe would experience 6 days while the universe experiences 13.9 billion years; 6 OF OUR DAYS ARE STRETCHED OUT AND CONTAIN 14 BILLION EARLY YEARS OF THE UNIVERSE
2 minutes ago ·
BIBLE AND SCIENCE AGREE…EINSTEIN’S RELATIVITY EQUATION SAYS 13.7 BILLION YEARS AND 6 DAYS ARE BOTH TRUE DEPENDING ON SPACE-TIME COORDINATES; T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days;5000500000000 = 6/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12; PLACING YHWH 1/2 a millimeter from the farthest photons YHWH is in all reference frames.
distance of YHWH from farthest photon inthe estimated size of the universe=46500000000 LY radius; 299792458 m / s x60 x 60 x 24 x 365 x 46500000000=439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters x .99999999999999999999999999999999= 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 meters distance;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 – 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 = .0005 meters difference, YHWH half a millimeter from farthest photons
space time stretched 1000,000,000,000 times since first matter (something slower than light survived, hence time kicks in), this means time has slowed 1000,000,000,000 times, 5.1 days genesis x 1000,000,000,000/365=13.9 billion years, YHWH looking into the universe would experience 6 days while the universe experiences 13.9 billion years; 6 OF OUR DAYS ARE STRETCHED OUT AND CONTAIN 14 BILLION EARLY YEARS OF THE UNIVERSE………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
the expanse was not made in 1:2 where YHWH is hovering above the waters….therefore since he was above the waters above that were above those below and there was no expanse and the sea was not yet made therefore only one face… he was above the universe…the hebrew words for heaven are mayim (waters)…and shamayimn(fire and waters)
TIME IN HEAVEN APPEARS TO BE SHORTER IN HEAVEN…LITERALLY… Rev 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a LITTLE while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
For our light affliction, which is but for a MOMENT, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
respectfully
let’s start without the math…lets be theoretical
When you get closer to light speed…time slows down
When you reach light speed…time stops for you (NASA has an article online saying this..and its well known)
So if someone were near the farthest photons…travelling near light speed…that persons time would get really really slow depending on their velocity
we know that relativity is true…we have to reset the time of satellites every day
gravity stretches space…when space is stretched…time slows down
the universe is stretching
astronomers interpret the stretching of space as the stretching of time
whether the time is literal 6 days or not has been a long dabate among bible believers
Schroeder is saying the 6 days is where the Bible says YHWH is at…above the universe…and that since the early universe time was not stretched out it was much faster so the math shows that 6 of our days contain 14 billion years when the universe was not as stretched..all scientist know stretching of space slows time down
the vedic indians said a day with their deities was hundreds of thousands of years
the bible has relativity in many places…it says a 1000 years is as a day, and as a watch in the night (about 3 hours); Other passages that were written decades after Christ said this is the last hour (deacades) it would appear that there is relativity in the Bible
Here is the order in Hebrew…
darkness on the surface of the deep (black hole, abyss in septuigint)
light…singular not plural..there is only one light…1000 years ago there were Jews saying the universe began smaller than a grain of mustard and was pure energy
light separates from darkness as the universe cools to the point that photons are freed
atmosphere is formed and things start seperating
land and water on the earth seperate to for sea and land (singular)
land and seas become plural
plants are formed from the eretz (earth) eretz can mean dirt, land, nation, or the globe…the oldest fossils we have resemble plantlike structures…some of the ancient jewish theologians said plants were begun this time by their creation was ongoing through the rest of the days “The oldest algae fossils have been dated more than three billion years old. Peter Stoner Science Speaks those six 24 hour days of Genesis, starting with Day One, would be, in billions of years, respectively, 7.1; 3.6; 1.8; 0.89; 0.45; 0.23. Gerald Schroeder Science of God
the atmosphere becomes oxygenated and sun, moon and starlight reaches the earth…shines upon the earth…Genesis stresse two times the sun shined down on the earth…made in hebrew is asah…
also all the tenses in Gen 1 are imperfect in the hebrew language…
the Hebrew word for made is…
asah-to do, fashion, accomplish, make
(Qal)
to do, work, make, produce
to do
to work
to deal (with)
to act, act with effect, effect
to make
to make
to produce
to prepare
to make (an offering)
to attend to, put in order
to observe, celebrate
to acquire (property)
to appoint, ordain, institute
to bring about
to use
to spend, pass
as you see…asah does NOT necessarily mean “made from scratch” there are many other meanings such as work, deal, act with effect, perpare, attend to, put in order, observe, celebrate, acquire, appoint, ordain, institute, use, spend
this era is when the atmosphere became oxygenated and is very near the time that the luminosity of the sun began to rise intsead of plummeting
two times the text says the sun shined upon the earth
set (nathan)-to give, put, set
(Qal)
to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appoint, assign, designate
to make, constitute
here you can see that set can mean a good number of things
this era…something significant did happen with the sun moon and stars..they became visible on the eart and the suns luminosity began to rise
another point to prove my point…in Job 38 it places stars before the earth..therefore asah does not mean made from scratch
another point..look up the dictionaries online…a reflector can be called a light…see for yourself…the dictionaries say it
if the bulb in a flashlight is gone..is it still not called a light?
continuing…
tanniyn- dragon, serpent, sea monster
dragon or dinosaur
sea or river monster
serpent, venomous snake
as you can see…most of the definitions are reptiles or amphibians
unfortunately..the KJV translated it as whales becuase they were not aware of these other things
1000 years ago..there were Jewish theologions that knew this was reptiles
owph-flying creatures, fowl, insects, birds
fowl, birds
winged insects
unfortunately the KJV translators were not aware of the flying insects and their large sizes…KJV chose birds when the Hebrew intended flying insects
Also Eve was created from adam
Create (bara)-to create, shape, form
(Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
of heaven and earth
of individual man
of new conditions and circumstances
of transformations
as you see…bara can mean to transform…actually Eve was transformed from Adam..YHWH didnt make her from scratch…he used Adams body and DNA
therefore…YHWH could have made animals from animals
the original Hebrew tenses are imperfect meaning ongoing action rather than completed that day
and 6 days near the outer universe are 14 billion years here…it all depends on your velocity and how much space has been stretched..this is basic physics without the math…so its easier to understand…its in all physics texts
I counted about 18 things in all in Genesis in the correct order..the permutations are 18! are 1 in 10^15 odds or 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 odds
there are 2000 fulfilled prophecies in the Bible the avarage odds are 1 in 10 each meaning the total odds are 1 in 10^2000
1 in 1 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 odds
Fred Hoyle estimated that there is less than 1 chance in 10 to the 40,000power that life could have originated by random trials. 10 to the 40,000power is a 1 with 40,000 zeros after it!
Dr Harold Morowitz the probability of the chance formation of the simplest, smallest lifeform know, is about 1 in 110^340,000,000. Dr Carl Sagan, odds against the simplest of life forms taking shape on our planet by chance. 1 in 110^2,000,000,000. Dawkins, Gould, Morowitz, Nye all said -no one knows how life started. Mr. Dawkins do you know of a mutation that increases the information of a Genome Dawkins rolls his eyes, drops his jaw looking lost for an answer Stephen J. Gould: “The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils.” (Stephen Jay Gould, Harvard University. “Evolution’s Erratic Pace”, Natural History Vol. 5, May 1977).In 1982 Francis Crick, winner of the Nobel Prize in Biology after discovering DNA, wrote:”An honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the Origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have to be satisfied to get it going” (Life Itself, Its Origin and Nature, Futura, London 1982).Sir Fred Hoyle, a famous UK astronomer, wrote: “A super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology … The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number of 10 with 40 thousand noughts (zeros) after it. It is enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random they must therefore have been the product of a purposeful intelligence,” (Nature: vol.294:105, Nov 12 1981).In 1930 British physicist Sir James Jeans wrote:”Nature seems very conversant with the rules of pure mathematics … In the same way, a scientific study of the action of the Universe has suggested a conclusion which may be summed up… in the statement that the Universe appears to have been designed by a pure mathematician… the Universe can best be pictured, although still very imperfectly and inadequately, as consisting of pure thought… If the Universe is a Universe of thought, then its Creation must have been an act of thought. Indeed the finiteness of space compels us to think of the creator as working outside time and space, which are part of his Creation, just as an artist is outside his canvas,” (The Mysterious Universe p 146).NASA astronomer Robert Jastrow wrote:Robert Jastrow “Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a Biblical view of the Origin of the world: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply in a definite moment of time, in a flash of light and energy”, (God and the Astronomers, page 14).Physicist and Nobel Laureate Arno Penzias wrote:”Astronomy leads us to a unique event, an Universe which was created out of nothing, one with a very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say ‘supernatural’) plan.”Robert Shapiro wrote:”The improbability involved in generating even one bacterium is so large that it reduces all considerations of time and space to nothingness. Given such odds, the time until the black holes evaporate and the space to the ends of the Universe would make no difference at all. If we were to wait, we would truly be waiting for a miracle”,”The number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory.” – Charles Darwin 1902 edition.Nowhere was Darwin able to point to one bona fide case of natural selection having actually generated evolutionary change in nature.Ultimately, the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century. Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crises (Bethesda, Maryland: Adler & Adler, 1986) pp. 62, 358.”[The theory of evolution] forms a satisfactory faith on which to base our interpretation of nature.”—*L. Harrison Matthews, “Introduction to Origin of Species,” p. xxii (1977 edition).”The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an unproved theory—is it then a science or faith? L. H. Matthews, introduction to Origin of Species 1872 Darwin: “I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science.”’Letter to Asa Gray, 18 June [1857] (see the letter)
It only takes a mutation to change a birds beak. It would take 10^600 tries to get the bones in the best place by chance.
EINSTEIN’S RELATIVITY TEACHES THAT 6 DAYS ABOVE THE UNIVERSE AND 13.7 BILLION YEARS HERE WOULD PASS AT THE SAME TIME
relativity teaches that the faster a person goes the slower their time occurs…as a person approaches the speed of light their time gets slower…YHWH is near the farthest photons ..the farthest objects in the universe…he is moving away from us near the speed of light riding the universe…below is a rocket simulation from a science website using the same principle..the rocket experiences a day ..the earth observers days are listed under the days column.
here is einsteins time dilation formula
T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;
now…plugging in the 13.7 billion years in days, and the 6 days we get…
13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days;5000500000000 = 6/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12
.99999999999999999999999999999999% speed of light is near the farthest photons (objects) in the universe…assuming Gott is correct on the 93 billion light year estimated width of the universe…this amounts to 1/2 a millimeter from the farthest photons
here is the rocket example form a non associated science site…
Rest Frame Time Elapsed
per Day on Ship
v/c Days Years
0.0 1.00 0.003
0.1 1.01 0.003
0.2 1.02 0.003
0.3 1.05 0.003
0.4 1.09 0.003
0.5 1.15 0.003
0.6 1.25 0.003
0.7 1.40 0.004
0.8 1.67 0.005
0.9 2.29 0.006
0.95 3.20 0.009
0.97 4.11 0.011
0.99 7.09 0.019
0.995 10.01 0.027
0.999 22.37 0.061
0.9999 70.71 0.194
0.99999 223.61 0.613
0.999999 707.11 1.937
0.9999999 2236.07 6.126
0.99999999 7071.07 19.373
0.999999999 22360.68 61.262
0.9999999999 70710.68 193.728
0.99999999999 223606.79 612.621
0.999999999999 707114.60 1937.300
0.9999999999999 2235720.41 6125.261
0.99999999999999 7073895.38 19380.535
0.999999999999999 22369621.33 61286.634
.99999999999999999999999999999999 speed of light @ 6 days near farthest photons= 13.7 billion years
Bible is true…EINSTEIN’S RELATIVITY EQUATION SAYS 13.7 BILLION YEARS AND 6 DAYS ARE BOTH TRUE DEPENDING ON SPACE-TIME COORDINATES; T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days;5000500000000 = 6/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12; PLACING YHWH 1/2 a millimeter from the farthest photons YHWH is in all reference frames.distance of YHWH from farthest photon inthe estimated size of the universe=46500000000 LY radius; 299792458 m / s x60 x 60 x 24 x 365 x 46500000000=439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters x .99999999999999999999999999999999= 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 meters distance;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 – 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 = .0005 meters difference, YHWH half a millimeter from farthest photonsspace time stretched 1000,000,000,000 times since first matter (something slower than light survived, hence time kicks in), this means time has slowed 1000,000,000,000 times, 5.1 days genesis x 1000,000,000,000/365=13.9 billion years, YHWH looking into the universe would experience 6 days while the universe experiences 13.9 billion years; 6 OF OUR DAYS ARE STRETCHED OUT AND CONTAIN 14 BILLION EARLY YEARS OF THE UNIVERSE
create is bara in hebrew and can mean to transform
made is asah in hebrew and means to work on-not to make from scratch
tenses are imperfect in original hebrew
tanniyn usually means giant reptile rather than whale
owph could mean winged insect or fowl…insects are what appears in the fossil order
odds, origin of DNA code, how life started(scientifically)-dawkins said nobody knows, there is no proven means of increasing complexity by chance, the fossil record is mostly gaps, human changes are too rapid for chance mutations, quote their own showing the pitfalls
actually the 6 days work out to be 1/2 millimeter from the farthest photons when you plug in the numbers…but…if you read the first verse the heavens and earth were created before they were created because the tense is perfect then the word and (waw vav) means the 6 days of creation follow…to they were finished before they were created..then chapter 2 says they were created in a day…so..we have 3 different times
by the way…verse 1:1 where it was finished before the full 6 days…woud place YHWH even closer to the farthest photons..paper thin closeness or smaller
there are only two ways to interpret this
1. the days are symbolic
2. the day are literal which would mean relativity
gone forever are the days that time is a difficulty…thanks to Einstein
listen starting at 3:00 richard dawkins says no one knows how life started
richard dawkins appears stumped http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W4e4MwogLo
Richard Dawkins confusing something and nothing… dawkins called it something contradicting himself …funny video… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v34QjYPuiEA
kaballah based on the bible and modern cosmology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuKwz0MEawI
Bible says flood was local
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html
engineering computer analysis of the ark
http://creation.com/safety-investigation-of-noahs-ark-in-a-seaway
we have 360 joints all the the best place and the right kind of joint in the right direction. Odds of the right joint (there are 6 kinds in the human body) 6^360. Odds of the right direction (there are 6 directions) 6^360. Then the odds of the joints being the right size (small , medium, large) are 3^360. The odds of just our joints are at least 6^360 x 6^360 x 3^360 are 1 in 10^280 x 1 in 10^280 x 1 in 10^171 giving a total probability of 1 in 10^731 odds of each joint being the right kind in the right direction and the right size. We are not here by chance.
facebook
could it be that darwinists and young earth creationists are BOTH wrong? bible says God commanded 1000 generations..that is 20,000 to 1000000 years depending on how long a generation is..then theres the fact that generation inthe bible can mean descendant rather than a son… Time runs at different rates everywhere in the universe…the whole universe does not go by the same clock….gerald schroeder took an average for the whole universe…its the only way to get a time for the universe…the question is not…”was it 6 days” …rather….where was it 6 days….einsteins time dilation formulas say its 6 days near the farthest extremities of the expanding universe…Gen 1
:2 places YHWH above the universe because the sea was not made yet in the chapter…thus his time is above the universe…waters, mayim is a common hebrew term for the heavens and the heaven YHWH is above……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY VELOCITY:T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days;5000500000000 = 6/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12; PLACING YHWH 1/2 a millimeter closer than the farthest photons…also… YHWH is in all reference frames……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY DISTANCE:
distance of YHWH from farthest photon inthe estimated size of the universe=46500000000 LY radius; 299792458 m / s x60 x 60 x 24 x 365 x 46500000000=439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters x .99999999999999999999999999999999= 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 meters distance;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 – 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 = .0005 meters difference, YHWH half a millimeter from farthest photons……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………CALCULATING BY STRETCHING OF SPACE: space time stretched 1000,000,000,000 times since first matter (something slower than light survived, hence time kicks in), this means time has slowed 1000,000,000,000 times, 5.1 days genesis x 1000,000,000,000/365=13.9 billion years, YHWH looking into the universe would experience 6 days while the universe experiences 13.9 billion years; 6 OF OUR DAYS ARE STRETCHED OUT AND CONTAIN 14 BILLION EARLY YEARS OF THE UNIVERSE
2 minutes ago ·
BIBLE AND SCIENCE AGREE…EINSTEIN’S RELATIVITY EQUATION SAYS 13.7 BILLION YEARS AND 6 DAYS ARE BOTH TRUE DEPENDING ON SPACE-TIME COORDINATES; T1=T2/(1- (v^2)/c^2) ½;13,700,000,000 x365 = 5000500000000 days;5000500000000 = 6/sqrt 1-.99999999999999999999999999999999% velocity of photons (farthest photons);5000500000000 = 6/sqrt .000000000000000000000001;5000500000000 = 6/1.19988001199880011998800119988e-12; PLACING YHWH 1/2 a millimeter from the farthest photons YHWH is in all reference frames.
distance of YHWH from farthest photon inthe estimated size of the universe=46500000000 LY radius; 299792458 m / s x60 x 60 x 24 x 365 x 46500000000=439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 meters x .99999999999999999999999999999999= 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 meters distance;439,622,855,430,192,000,000,000,000 – 439,622,855,430,191,999,999,999,999.99956 = .0005 meters difference, YHWH half a millimeter from farthest photons
space time stretched 1000,000,000,000 times since first matter (something slower than light survived, hence time kicks in), this means time has slowed 1000,000,000,000 times, 5.1 days genesis x 1000,000,000,000/365=13.9 billion years, YHWH looking into the universe would experience 6 days while the universe experiences 13.9 billion years; 6 OF OUR DAYS ARE STRETCHED OUT AND CONTAIN 14 BILLION EARLY YEARS OF THE UNIVERSE…also the hebrew of genesis actually matches the secular order of events…in kaballah in 1400’s it taught the universe started as a tiny speck and YHWH stretched it…and that made for the sun and moon might have meant to appear..the hebrew word is asah…and create in hebrew is bara and can mean to transform…YHWH transformed eve from adam…but life is NOT by chance…we have 360 joints all the the best place and the right kind of joint in the right direction. Odds of the right joint (there are 6 kinds in the human body) 6^360. Odds of the right direction (there are 6 directions) 6^360. Then the odds of the joints being the right size (small , medium, large) are 3^360. The odds of just our joints are at least 6^360 x 6^360 x 3^360 are 1 in 10^280 x 1 in 10^280 x 1 in 10^171 giving a total probability of 1 in 10^731 odds of each joint being the right kind in the right direction and the right size. We are not here by chance. perhaps…darwin and YECs are wrong
What is in harmony and difference between the Bible and Darwinism? While I’m not a Darwinist and Darwin had no knowledge of DNA nor many of the reproduction processes, Darwin was clearly a theist in the 6th Origin of Speices he edited shortly before his death. Darwin believed that YHWH created the laws to create life, but this does not appear to be the case in actuality. But, the Bible and Darwinsim are not necessarily completely exclusive of each other. Going by the Hebrew meanings, Ceate in the Bible is bara and can mean to transform. Therefore, YHWH could have made animals from animals. The tense is imperfect meaning unfinished and can mean that the process had occured for some time in the past and for some time to come. What is the difference between Darwinism and probability? Probability supports special creation. It even shows that our joints are not by chance. Concerning the sun, moon, and stars….וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים יְהִי מְאֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם לְהַבְדִּיל בֵּין הַיּוֹם וּבֵין הַלָּיְלָה וְהָיוּ לְאֹתֹת וּלְמוֹעֲדִים וּלְיָמִים וְשָׁנִים and saying remain(qal, imperfect…can mean to be saying for sometime from the past…remain is probably the best word that fits the Hebrew of Genesis and Job…Job says the stars existed before the earth…thus Job and Genesis should be interpreted in a way that is in harmony…Going by the Hebrew Grammer…there is no contradiction) El remain luminary in expanse the sky to divide distinction the day (or warm) and distinction the night and exist to appearing and to seasons and to day and year (revolution)וְהָיוּ לִמְאוֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם לְהָאִיר עַל־הָאָרֶץ וַיְהִי־כֵן and remain to yield (determined…willingness ) to expanse the sky to make luminous (over …”against”) the earth and remain soוַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים אֶת־שְׁנֵי הַמְּאֹרֹת הַגְּדֹלִים אֶת־הַמָּאוֹר הַגָּדֹל לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַיּוֹם וְאֶת־הַמָּאוֹרהַקָּטֹן לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַלַּיְלָה וְאֵת הַכּוֹכָבִים and ((Qal) 1a1) to do, work, make, produce 1a1a) to do 1a1b) to work 1a1c) to deal (with) 1a1d) to act, act with effect, effect 1a2) to make 1a2a) to make 1a2b) to produce 1a2c) to prepare 1a2d) to make (an offering) 1a2e) to attend to, put in order 1a2f) to observe, celebrate 1a2g) to acquire (property) 1a2h) to appoint, ordain, institute 1a2i) to bring about 1a2j) to use 1a2k) to spend, pass) (imperfect-had been saying for some time in the past) El entity two the luminary the greater older entity the luminary the greater older to rule the (hot or day) and entity the luminary the diminuitive (smaller, younger, lesser in quan, size, number, age, importance) to rule the night and entity the starsוַיִּתֵּן אֹתָם אֱלֹהִים בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמָיִם לְהָאִיר עַל־הָאָרֶץ and give entity El in expanse the sky to make luminous above over down upon the earthוְלִמְשֹׁל בַּיּוֹם וּבַלַּיְלָה וּלֲהַבְדִּיל בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵיןהַחֹשֶׁ וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים כִּי־טוֹב and to rule in day (the warm, the hot) and in night and to distinguish between the luminary and distinction the darkness and see (imperfect…can mean for some time into the past ) El causal good. This was the geological period that the Sun directly reached the earth when the thick haze finally cleared after the great oxygenation event. This is also the period just before there was life. Life depends on the regular cycles of the sun, moon, and stars.
LikeLike
ANOTHER THING…THE WORD RIQYA( MISPELLED …SORRY) MEANS BEATEN OUT…IF WE BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG-THIS SURELY IT COULD BE SAID THE HEAVENS WERE BEATEN OUT-THAT WAS THE MOST MASSIVE BLAST EVER IN THE UNIVERSER.
LikeLike
I am staggered by the complex nonsense above. A conflation of half understood theories and seemingly misunderstood principles of basic cosmology, quantum theory and both of Einstein’s theories, of Relativity and Special Relativity. I have no doubt that you sincerely believe everythIng contained in your post, but it just does not make any sense.
LikeLiked by 1 person
soooooo do it your self you git
LikeLike
the great falling away, this is where people fall away from sound doctrine, get involved in “worldly” debates on scripture and start justifying queer behaviours and thinking. As a Christian we preach the gospel, if people want to reject it because they don’t like a story or want to discuss the science behind Genesis, let them! And step away. Truth will be revealed, we are not here to convince those who scientifically reject God’s Word!
LikeLike
Pingback: Weekly Buzz: 11/10/14 | Jesus & Dawkins
Nice blog you have here. Just a couple comments, Biblically speaking, the Young Earth view is more consistent with the overall theme of the Bible than what some call Theistic Evolution. When you classify early Genesis as non-literal, then you introduce theological problems such as original sin/fall of man, the Sabbath, Adam/Christ ante-type/type.
I imagine it all comes down to interpreting the evidence. As Ken Ham points out, it seems a lot of people defer to scientists as if they’re completely unbiased with no agenda at all. All one has to do is look at Jerry Coyne, PZ Myers et al the methods they use to suppress any thought that contradicts standard evolutionary dogma.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hi Glenn,
Obviously some individual scientists have their own agenda. They want to get their paper published. They want to become famous. But the system of peer review of articles, and the system of thousands of other scientists criticizing one’s work seems to have worked out pretty well. After all, before science, i.e., a few hundred years ago, we had no machines, no medicine, no electricity, the average lifespan was about thirty or forty, and if someone got a scratch and it got infected, they would just die. Science seems to work pretty well. Every machine that you use — computers, television, your car, cell phones, and medicine, were all invented by science. By the way, I am religious and do believe in God. But I think a totally literal interpretation of the Bible is untenable. First of all, there are contradictory stories in the bible. For example, there are two different stories about Adam and Eve in Genesis which contract each other. But, even if we were to interpret the Bible literally, who knows what a “day” means to God. Maybe six days to God is 4 billion years to us. Maybe “God created man” means that God used His brilliant system of evolution to create man. And since a billion years is a blink of an eye to God, it happened pretty quickly to Him. I’d be interested to know your thoughts about this.
Best,
James
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pingback: Weekly Buzz: 12/8/14 | Jesus & Dawkins
I love it! And could follow most of it too.
LikeLike
Pingback: Weekly Buzz: 2/9/15 | Jesus & Dawkins
Obviously, you are trying to blend science, a world view and a biblical view together and come out with your OWNVIEW. Ken Ham is correct in stating the earth is about 6000 years old. Just a simple understanding of scripture would lead anyone to that conclusion.
Genesis5:1 claims itis the book of generations from Adam. You don’t have to have a doctoritein theology to understand that. You just have to believe it isthe truth. Any theologian who disagrees with the “inspired” written word of God is NOT a Holy Spirit led son of God.
While I may not agree with every little detail that Ken Ham or Kent Hovind or ICR or anyone elsebelieves, is of little importance. I do agree with the written word of God.
God said…and it was made. He completed his plan in six morming and evening days (about 24hrs. each), about six thousand years ago. ALL Christians should be able to understand that. It is not that complicated.
LikeLike
Hi,
Just curious. Do you believe that the universe is also 6000 years old? Just wondering.
Sincerely,
James D.
LikeLike
Pingback: Does the Bible contradict Scientific facts? – Creation vs Evolution - Theory Debate - Gizmo Snack
I was beginning to think that james dwayne everett’s rambling thesis might become a concrete demonstration of the concept of infinity, but it actually did come to an end! Unfortunately he failed to address, as has every other post and comment on this blog, what I consider to be the most important philoreligiscientific question of all: exactly (not approximately or theoretically or bibliointerpretively) how many angels will fit on the head of a pin?
LikeLike
Very shortly this site will be famous among all blogging and site-building people,
due to it’s nice posts
LikeLike
I would change my mind on evolution if there were even one example of fossils and/or skeletal remains showing a transition from one critter to another- or to humans. An actual fossil/skeletal record showing an obvious transitioning. Not bits and pieces here and there and then artists’ depictions and other leaps of faith.
LikeLike
its absurd and disrespectful to earth to say its 6000 years old but thats what the bible says which discredits it from having any truth at all. i mean to believe it would make a person insane but to beleive it you already must be insane
LikeLike